Change To Second Life Terms of Service – RedZone Alt Outing No More

24 02 2011

Linden Lab has bowed to the wave of public anger and explicitly banned the alt outing functionality in RedZone:

Disclosure

Residents are entitled to a reasonable level of privacy with regard to their Second Life experience. Sharing personal information about your fellow Residents without their consent — including gender, religion, age, marital status, race, sexual preference, alternate account names, and real-world location beyond what is provided by them in their Resident profile — is not allowed. Remotely monitoring conversations in Second Life, posting conversation logs, or sharing conversation logs without the participants’ consent are all prohibited.

That is clear enough. RedZone may no longer be used to share alt information or other personal information.

Note that Linden Labs also agree here that this constitutes personal information, which, as you know, continues to make the redZone database illegal in Europe. But hey, this is huge progress, because as expected (see my last post), zFire has had to adapt his spyware to avoid a permanent ban. Here is zFire’s announcement:

Hello RedZone owners.
After talking with Linden Labs over the past month we have reached an agreement.
Effective now and retroactively the RedZone system will request Consent to display alt name information.
LL policy will reflect this change by tomorrow the 25th.
The zRZ HUD will now request consent much like a bloodlines bite.
The zRZ Website now offers a system to send an IM to request consent for a zF RedZone Alt Background check.
The system is already in place, new functions and consent methods will be offered as we discover how best to implement this feature.
Linden Labs has been good enough to suggest many ideas that settled on this one.
Alt names can still be viewed to settle disputes, run security background checks etc. (With Consent)
Please see http://isellsl.ath.cx/checkconsentinfo.php for more.

The RedZone system has been, and always will be current with SecondLife(tm) terms of service.

I would like to thank Linden Labs for working with RedZone and providing enough time for RedZone to make these changes.
Best Regards,
zFire Xue

PS: Everything is still logged as before, everything still works as before.
Only now to view the alts you need consent.
Alts are still banable if they are related to a new user you do not want on your land.
Alts of people you banned are still banned, alts of copybots are still banned, alts of anyone you have banned are still going to be banned, just not named.

So yes, RedZone has been neutered. It no longer will share all your alts without your consent (and, as one disgruntled spyware user says – who is going to give consent?) The reason people were really buying it has gone.

We know it is crap for security. It does not detect copybots, it is filled with incorrect information, and with media off its really just another (very expensive) security orb. We can hope that it will go and quietly die now.

But please note the chilling PS in ZFire’s message. It still illegally and silently scans people without consent. It still collects your data. Just because basement guy is not allowed to share it, does not mean he won’t share it with a few good friends. Nor is he entitled to collect it.

But despite this, today feels like a very good day.

Some choice comments from the RedZone forums:

Good Lord, they WON? You’ll never hear the end of it

And:

Well this is great as noone is going to give permission for people to view alts..i probably speak for many redzone users when i say that i have wasted money buying this product to protect myself from griefers now i cant …i think alot of people will ask for refunds,especially people who bought this product when he was in negotiations with LL

Don’t worry…he only sold one or two units maximum in that time.

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37 responses

24 02 2011
Resplond

Exactly that PS is something people dont pay attention. I can bet my left AND right nut that crackerjack, Redd and rest of his close ass lickers will have full access to database. It still COLLECT data, even it doesnt “disclose” it publicly it still collect it. Personaly, i really dont give 2 shits even it does, I just rooted for other side because I hate ego maniac zFire and his band of retards. Yes, privacy intrusion is wrong, yes its not ethical, and yes EVERYBODY else does it…

24 02 2011
Nelson Jenkins

I find it endlessly amusing that this would solve any of the problems.

Allow me to elaborate.

You want to find someone’s alts.

Ban them.

When/if their alts are found, check your land banlist.

There you go. Nothing changed, you just have to look in the SL client now instead.

This whole announcement is a bullshit sham to save face in light of LL cracking down on RZ. “Oh, we came to an AGREEMENT with LL, we didn’t just pull this out of our ass to keep making money!” Yeah, okay zFire. I’m still waiting to see my alts and have them delisted.

24 02 2011
Resplond

Of course… LL dont care about users anyway, and dont want to reimburse all those “20000+” users. Only front end changed, and in back end it still mix and matching wrong data… And I cannot believe that actually some retards thinks that LL should buy zRZ off form zFire because its such great product?!?! For fucks sakes people, you can get shitload more info directly from viewer than from media stream exploit. Im looking their drama right now there, and I want to die laughing how suddenly excitement went down… I gotta admit that i have hoped for “POOL’S CLOSED DUE TO AIDS”.. but i guess its better than nothing… Considering WorkingOnIt Linden was assigned its good ๐Ÿ˜€

25 02 2011
Karen

Something has changed?
I just tested a known Redzone sim and was never asked if i concented to a scan.
[16:21] GreenZone 2.5: Watch out ! This area is infected by an Avatar / IP gatherer / Spyware !
[16:22] GreenZone 2.5: Infected parcel: Mad Sci City Shopping Mall , infiltrated by : zFire Xue
[16:22] GreenZone 2.5: Watch out ! This area is infected by an Avatar / IP gatherer / Spyware !
[16:22] GreenZone 2.5: Infected parcel: Mad Sci City Shopping Mall , infiltrated by : zFire Xue

25 02 2011
Inuko Arashi

I do’nt mind this greenzone thing EXCEPT that people are still scanning my parcel AFTER i removed ZFIRE redzone.

26 02 2011
Nelson Jenkins

What? GreenZone doesn’t “scan your parcel”.

25 02 2011
Resplond

Dont want to spoil fun, but prolly owner didnt update retarded skull… So, simply file AR against owner ๐Ÿ˜€
Dont expect any drastic measures considering WorkinOnIt Linden just “fixed” issue tho ๐Ÿ˜‰

25 02 2011
Potosi Abonwood

There is nothing in the announcement that says it’s not allowed to scan you and add all that info to the database. Just the disclosure of alts is something that requires consent. Basically LL did a half way job in fixing things.

Especially considering that zFire still has access to all that data and I’m sure all his close and friendly buddies have it as well.

The hole needs to be plugged in media, the scanning should require consent if not. Heck there needs to be a ‘no to any request to RZ’ button. Also the owners of RZ can still opt to have their alts not connected to themselves.

I say we celebrate half a victory for a day or two and then continue on with the GZ movement.

25 02 2011
Resplond

Or actually… Nothing really changed
It still scan you
But if RZ user wants to see your alts, he must ask consent from you… So it still quietly tracks you down..

25 02 2011
Scylla Rhiadra

It would be rather nice to know if Nelson’s point, above, holds. Does the system still permit a ban of not merely the avatar on site, but all associated “alts” in the database, thereby automatically adding those names as well to the land ban list?

If so, then this is indeed only a minor victory, and little more than a PR gesture by LL. The main advantage is that it would render the HUD largely useless.

25 02 2011
Cummere

yes it does….
it also only requires one consent for all linked accounts… no matter how false the links are… (i find it amusing that one of the redzone users actually things someone is likely to have 87 alts )

25 02 2011
Inuko Arashi

I”m so pissed though because i took this down and deleted it out of my inventory.. and greenzone people are STILL scanning me and screwing my business over! I should put out an AR on this guy for making me 4k in debt and now having customers pissed at me.

25 02 2011
Azure Twine

What business is that Inuko?

I just searched your name and nothing

26 02 2011
Nelson Jenkins

Already responded to this, but yeah. Allow me the liberty of disparaging your point.

1.) GreenZone doesn’t do anything that you can detect. There is no code anywhere in the viewer that can report a sensor call made by someone else.
2.) GreenZone doesn’t scan you. It scans for the roving sensor prims shot out by RedZone units. In fact, if I’m correct, the server code is such that if you search for a RedZone unit correctly, your avatar instance is not even touched in the server’s memory.
3.) GreenZone doesn’t “screw your business over” unless it detects a RedZone unit, in which case the user would probably leave immediately. However, this is not to blame on GreenZone or its users – this would be your fault for employing spyware to “secure” your place of business. (I am well aware that you removed it.)
4.) Who would you AR? While zFire is responsible for a lot of shit, he certainly isn’t responsible for GreenZone users screwing your business over. (How you argued that it was GZ’s fault, then jumped to zF taking the blame, is beyond me.)
5.) 4k in debt? You should file a lawsuit. I understand that this may be a lot to someone that runs a business in fermenting and bottling fine whine, but this is the equivalent of less than US$15. To elaborate on this point, I actually had to stop for gas today at a Shell station and decided to pay $15 for some extra fuel to get to work and back, since I was running on fumes. I obtained a grand total of 3.5 gallons and was unable to return home without an extra stop.
5a.) If you had meant that GZ’s antics (or was it zFire?) had made you actually go in the red and not just lose profits estimating 4k, I would like to know exactly how you would get that deep in the red. Did you leave “show parcel in search results” on for 3 years and not earn any money to cover it?
6.) I was unable to find you in search. Unless you are using a different name to post here, that would be a very bad move if you are intending on running any sort of business.
7.) All in all, for some reason I get the impression that you don’t have any customers to get pissed at you in the first place, and if you do, you certainly have some idiotic customers.

26 02 2011
Alex

Greenzone doesn’t “scan” a damned thing! All it does is react to RedZone when a land owner has it running. If people wearing Greenzone come to your place and are told you still have RZ running it’s because you DO. Like maybe you left an active orb somewhere and GZ sees it.

Don’t like to be scanned by RedZone? turn of your media in the viewer. Want to play “Trolling For RZ”? Wear greenzone and have fun exploring.

This whole redzone/greenzone thing is just so much dead horse beating bullshit anyway.

25 02 2011
Potosi Abonwood

Well you all may want to head over and look at some of the latest posts on the closed JIRA. Evidently zFire and his crew are looking for ways around the ToS. Including one where it gives the alts names except for the first letter of each word.

Yeah the stalkers, griefers and harrassers are trying to get their toy back to the way it was now. PLUS after all the rules they break they are screaming mad over the upcoming update for phoenix which would black their ability to scan you through the media stream saying it’s against the ToS.

25 02 2011
no2redzone

To all those who point out this spyware still scans you: yes, I said that:

“But please note the chilling PS in ZFireโ€™s message. It still illegally and silently scans people without consent. It still collects your data. Just because basement guy is not allowed to share it, does not mean he wonโ€™t share it with a few good friends. Nor is he entitled to collect it.”

So we are not done with RedZone spyware. I am angry with Linden Lab for fudging the issue and closing the Jira. Their client still contains a security hole. I can still write my own exploit if I like and grab all my friend’s alts as they enter my land.

I am not surprised at the Lab though. Just before this news broke, I wrote on this blog:

“When his product was banned from the Marketplace, the Lindens may have told him that it was specifically the alt detection he had to remove. It may be he is attempting to comply. I hope that this is not the case, as the problem with RedZone goes beyond alt detection, and is bound up in the existence of that illegal database, and its silent collection of data through a viewer exploit. A product that actually said โ€œclick this URL to have your IP address permanently recorded against your avatar nameโ€ would be the only thing that would be legal, although the existing database would also need to be purged.”

My suspicions were almost immediately confirmed.

RedZone remains illegal in countries with strong data protection law. Linden Lab are attempting a divide and conquer. They wish to remove much of the criticism by neutering the alt outing. What they need to do is fix their software to an industry standard level of security.

But there is hope. Phoenix patches look to do what LL refuse to do. There are also other avenues of complaint. In the meantime, RedZone is useless for the reason most people bought it and we should see a rapid reduction in its use.

(Note that Zfire’s site stats will keep showing the userbase growing at some 200 sites a day though!!)

25 02 2011
Magnuz Binder

@Resplond:
Already confirmed: A number of Mikey-boy’s fan-boys have been promoted to “admins” to have full access to the alt listings, and one fan-boy who weren’t promoted squealed about it to get back at Mikey-boy for the injustice.

@Potosi Abonwood:
The JIRA (https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-24746) was again closed by Zidonuke Ghost, who got his hand slapped once more for it, this time by Alexa Linden, for abusing the JIRA rules, and the JIRA is open again.

@all:
This is more a slap in the face from LL to all those worried about privacy issues than anything even close to a “victory”. If they could interpret the old ToS as not being sufficient to stop RedZone, this new wording is still vague enough to let them say they can’t act upon it.

I think there may be some truth to bronxelf’s statement at SLU Forums, that LL don’t want to stop this kind of data mining because it would interfere with their plans regarding FaceBook, the probably number one personal data miner on the Internet today (http://www.sluniverse.com/php/vb/general-sl-discussion/47314-zf-redzone-disclosure-secondlife-alts-135.html#post1163051). SLU Forums seem to be under real heavy load at present, possible owing to the explosion of interest over this issue there after the CS change.

26 02 2011
Potosi Abonwood

Magnuz please tell me you have a screenshot of him getting outed on promoting people. Some proof like that is what we need.

28 02 2011
Magnuz Binder

@Potosi Abonwood
Mikey-boy said he appointed “admins” himself at the GreenZone meetup he attended, even before my “trustworthy” source “leaked” it to me. The logs from the meetup was published at SLU forums (http://www.sluniverse.com/php/vb/general-sl-discussion/47314-zf-redzone-disclosure-secondlife-alts.html) but should be available elsewhere as well.

25 02 2011
Resplond

@Magnuz
Zidonuke is fucking retard and RZ fanboi, who is WELL known for his illegal activities e.g. bringing F-List down (rather allowing all users access to private convos, IP logs and other stuff), as well as being banned from SL NUMEROUS times. However, he is close, or rather close with I think Soft Linden, thus his alts popping up as soon hes banned. He is obnoxious fuck who should be raped both in SL and RL.. Now he will come here to drop his famous “Mew” or some stupid shit like that…

25 02 2011
Theia Magic

The short version of a long story is- we won a major battle against the Redtards, but the war is far from over.

Yes, the Redtards are trying to find various ways around LL’s new rule changes. Eliminating the first letter of names, a 60 second warning that would have “implied consent” if the person doesn’t leave the sim in time, etc.

Let’s face it, zFire can hear his cash cow’s death rattle, and he’s desperately trying to save it despite being past the point of revival.

25 02 2011
Resplond

Well I honestly dont get people… I mean, im pretty much one bitter rather old fart, who likes trashing, and trolling on some places ๐Ÿ™‚ What can i say, im bitch, but I can also have rather civilized debate. I tried that once with them, and EACH and every time i said something they didnt like, they banned me (big deal i know), and deleted post. So when I ask how secure his DB is, he say that its never been hacked, nor it will be. Hes running his show on macbook pro btw, prolly in his bedroom or something. So, they have problem with everybody else, except with guy who runs homebrewed server on macbook, in his house that is used for “high security device in sl”. Seriously, how retarded is that? Not to mention that hes using some domanis where guy sells his “How to cheat in casinos” dvd…

25 02 2011
no2redzone

Just a couple of points on this:

1. When ZFire says his database was never hacked, all he means is that he is not aware (or admitting) that it has been hacked.

2. It is not a Macbook Pro, it is a Mac Pro. His specific configuration would have set him back some $3,000, although he recently upgraded it. The Mac Pro is a desktop machine and a very capable Unix based server system. Not really designed for network spyware mind – it has far more processing power than he would need for this purpose, but I would be more worried by that Comcast network connection which seems to have some high latencies.

The Mac Pro is capable of being very secure if set up properly. Sadly for ZFire, he does not have much clue about security.

25 02 2011
Azure Twine

Redzone is now listed again on the marketplace. I urge everyone to flag the item as having been disabled then relisted.

This is against their policy to allow you to remove an item and then bring it back, unless it was LL who removed it ๐Ÿ™‚ But zfire claims it was he who did.

25 02 2011
Resplond

Let them list it. He forgot to remove alt linking when you open someones profile with negative score in Neibhour list… If avatar is on -1 because of being alt of avatar who is banned, you get that info too, which is breaking of “agreement zFire made with LL after he helped them creating new TOS” fucking egocentric retard…

25 02 2011
Resplond

Oh and i love their forums… its full of lulz ๐Ÿ˜€

4) Can i do something to prevent that i am linked to others who live in this three floors and would use second life ?

Fuzen wrote: Sure, though I’m pretty sure it is all client side. It covers a wide range of options from anonymising your SL account through a proxy, getting your own unique connection (obviously), avoiding Redzone sims and even avoiding SL itself entirely. That’s by no means an exhaustive list by the way, its just a few ways that spring to mind. YMMV on those examples, or indeed any of the others I neglected to mention for berevity.

25 02 2011
Nico

As has been mentioned, a battle has been won, but the war is not over.

LL’s lawyers have left the gate open for RZ to collect the data, although OF COURSE it will not be shared. (Ha!) However my “reasonable level of privacy” is still being impaired by the collection of data on my movements and of any alts/ false positives. The ToS prohibits the remote monitoring of conversations, so why does it permit the remote monitoring of movement?

The new CEO didn’t want “his” school meeting persona linked to “his” shooter persona, but if his “shooter alt” had to travel regularly to an Adult sim for his fun then access to that data is surely also inappropriate to anyone except the sim owner?

Is it me, or are they still trying to untie this Gordian knot one thread at a time?

25 02 2011
Wowlie Fowlie

You should still AR the RedZone devices as the RZ web site still permits two names to be entered in the “alt metrics” page, and the tool will give you a score that tells the likelihood of the two names being alts. This is still disclosing information about the alternate names of another person.

25 02 2011
Wolfear

Interesting.
The http://isellsl.ath.cx/ site has this message at the top
“Welcome to the NEW iSellSl.com
We are moving here, and merging the old site. =)”
When you enter the .com address, you are redirected back to the .cx
No stats on the front page anymore, but the forums are still up and active.

25 02 2011
Tay

LL really expects us to be content with THIS guy keeping a database on all our alts…

His latest bit on his forums
http://isellsl.ath.cx/madsci/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=502&sid=4661638612b2c5ec43fad928e39d9fa0&start=20

“If RedZone is banned, I will be forced to privatize the RedZone service with a service that operates outside of Secondlife, and therefore unrestricted by the above secondlife policy. Without that secondlife policy alt information will be shared with everyone. LSL scripts would be provided free of charge for people to copy paste into their own prims, and RedZone devices would continue to remain in SecondLife. Such a website would accept paypal instead of Linden dollars for membership. I don’t want that, nor do you. I prefer to operate with Linden Labs, not against them. I like Linden Labs, they are my friends and I try to improve Secondlife by improving security. You are free to have your opinion for or against RedZone. But you have no right to lie about TOS, laws etc, nor will I allow it.”

by zFire Xue ยป Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:07 pm

I’ve taken screenshots of this as I have a feeling zfire will read this and realize that wasn’t the smartest thing to say publically.

25 02 2011
Itazura

25 02 2011
no2redzone

Thanks for posting that Tay. I already found it elsewhere and just posted it up, without realising you had put it here too.

Chilling indeed.

25 02 2011
no2redzone

I love that video ๐Ÿ™‚

26 02 2011
Resplond

Regardless of topic that video is always funny ๐Ÿ™‚ And especially now when bandwagon is heading bye-bye

28 02 2011
Corvus

My question is this:

If zFire’s database still holds the alt information but doesn’t disclose it, but I didn’t give zFire permission to have access to that information, doesn’t that mean zFire himself is in violation of the TOS modifications by illicitly obtaining the information in the first place as an SL user?

It seems to me, that this TOS change implicitly suggests that learning someone’s data without their consent is a form of “sharing” that information, such that it shares from the database to the owner or from the owner to a computer in a manner where consent was not given. In the IT world, either of these are “disclosure” or “sharing” and it could be argued similarly in a courtroom.

Elsewise, it would be as to say “I can wiretap your house as long as I don’t tell anyone what I hear”.

I’d invite anyone who encounters RedZone to report against zFire, and not the owner, for the sake of getting the objects banned due to the sharing of data between digital entities with an analog one without consent.

28 02 2011
Corvus

Similarly, Skills Hax and anyone else who maintains such a database. Even Bloodlines could be interpreted in this way.




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